Al at dynoflash makes 659awhp

[Geovannie]

Pretty sick

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=95643&page=1&pp=15

That AMS kit is extremely sick. By far the best kit out there for the money. Wish they had the tq curve in there as well.

Fabio this is all you ;)

[woody91gsx]

NICE!!!! Someday...

[99AllTurbo]

Yeah I was reading that yesterday. Pretty sick sh*t. Pricey kit too. AMS is on top of sh*t though.

[99AllTurbo]

Fabio this is all you ;)


Just a matter of time. :chug:

[99AllTurbo]

He also ran 10.9@135 yesterday
Thread (http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=95995)

UPDATE: 10.5@137 today.

[newkoba]

hey geo is this the one that stopped by titan on friday?

[Geovannie]

Nah this guy is from up north.

[99AllTurbo]

On the subject of high hp EVOs, saw this one earlier. Crappy looking dyno, but they're supposed to use juice to spool it up in the near future.

BTW, it has a 5inch exhaust and stroker motor I believe:

702whp EVO 8 (http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=96215)

[Geovannie]

Yeah that is ****ty. Carlos come by a AMS turbo kit.

[99AllTurbo]

Carlos come by a AMS turbo kit.

Would be nice. You never know. AMS ran high 11's on pump gas at 118mph with a GT35R using a S-AFC to tune (no reflash).

[GraySilvia]

Taking a look at that dyno graph is pretty revealing. To achieve a flat HP curve like that, that means that the torque is constantly falling. That's teh suck. If the TORQUE curve were a little more flat, that thing would really make some monster horsepower. It's interesting to theorize why evo's, or perhaps 4G63's in general do that. Even on Al's car there, which i'm certain has a head ported to high hell, the torque just takes a nose dive. All the angry high HP SR20DET's have a reasonably flat torque curve considering. "Who cares about torque?" you might ask? "It's all about the HP, right?" Well, no. Since we're talking about going fast and such, peak acceleration occurs at peak torque. This is an undeniable fact. That car might be making 650whp at redline, but it's accelerating much slower at redline than where the torque peak obviously is; right where the boost comes all the way in. . . . . . . .perhaps the slightly longer stroke of the 4G63 vs. the SR20 (88mm vs. 86) has a hand in this at such extreme power levels. Well, anyway, just read through this thread and thought i'd add my $.02.

[racegate]

GraySilvia..are you serious? You forget about something that is kind of important, called a transmission.

I suggest you revisit the relationship between acceleration, torque, RPM, and *gearing* and try again.

(Hint: gearing)

[GraySilvia]

GraySilvia..are you serious? You forget about something that is kind of important, called a transmission.

I suggest you revisit the relationship between acceleration, torque, RPM, and *gearing* and try again.

(Hint: gearing)

Yeah, I'm aware of gearing. I.E. why a 200ft-lb F1 car hauls ass and a 700 ft-lb F250 is slow as hell (lets not get off on the *weight* tangent). The point is, that's a sorry powerband on Al's Evo.
I mean, if that were MY evo, i'd search for ways to put peak torque higher in the RPM range.

[ScrappyJack]

The point is, that's a sorry powerband on Al's Evo. I mean, if that were MY evo, i'd search for ways to put peak torque higher in the RPM range.

I am not looking through 5 pages of an EvoNimrod thread, but on the first page of the first link, the graph had no torque curve posted. How can you say for sure that th powerband sucks?

As for SR20DETs vs 4G63Ts, I graphed several examples of each with comparable peak output and in virtually every one, the 4G63T had the greater areas under curves. I would take a torque curve that hits 400 lbs-ft and falls to 350 lbs-ft over one that makes a flat 325 lbs-ft for example.

Also, when you are talking about powerbands, you have to look at the application.

[GraySilvia]

I am not looking through 5 pages of an EvoNimrod thread, but on the first page of the first link, the graph had no torque curve posted. How can you say for sure that th powerband sucks?




Because HP is a function of torque. To keep HP flat, the torque curve has to fall. If torque stays flat, HP increases at a certain rate. HP = torque x RPM/ 5252. You can look at Al's graph, take the HP #, the RPM, and boom, you know the torque, or vice versa. I'd do some math for ya'll, but they use mph on the x-axis, I don't really feel like figuring out what RPM they are at.

**EDIT** Ok, did some quick calculations based on some assumptions on Al's car.
1. Let's assume that 'full boost' is achieved at 5500rpm or so, that's a little conservative because i've seen GT35R's spool a little before then.
2. Let's say he's probably revving that thing to 8000 or even 8500, probably 8500.
3. Let's also assume that HP stays flat at 650 throughout the powerband. In reality, it starts at about 610, peaking at 650, then dropping back off.

So, what torque is he making? Well, at 5500 rpm, he'd be making 620ft-lbs of torque. Beefy. But at 8500, he'd be making 401ft-lbs. That's my point, that's terrible. Running it up to redline in every gear would yield slower acceleration than short shifting since the "area under the torque curve" would be less going that high in the RPMs. I'm merely saying that having a higher torque peak with the same gearing/rev limit would yield a faster car.

[ScrappyJack]

Brandon - I acknowledge your point and appreciate that you have tried to validate it with some number-crunching. I'm seeing if I can get some more details.

While there is almost always room for improvement, I still think it's hard to argue with 10.5 at 137 MPH. ;)

[GraySilvia]

While there is almost always room for improvement, I still think it's hard to argue with 10.5 at 137 MPH. ;)

Indeed! I just think it could be better is all. :thepimp:

[Stevevo8]

From what I understand the Evo guys in the UK tune for Tourqe and not hP.

[ScrappyJack]

That was incredibly insightful, Steve. Are you high? If so, I hope you were smoking something classy like opium and not something trashy like crackrock. :chug:

[GraySilvia]

That was incredibly insightful, Steve. Are you high? If so, I hope you were smoking something classy like opium and not something trashy like crackrock. :chug:

:lol: :lol:

[Stevevo8]

That was incredibly insightful, Steve. Are you high? If so, I hope you were smoking something classy like opium and not something trashy like crackrock. :chug:

Actually, I dont smoke anything but crack. The opium was in my earlier days.

What exactly are you trying to say here with your witty banter?

[ScrappyJack]

What exactly are you trying to say here with your witty banter?

I'm trying to say that your response, "From what I understand the Evo guys in the UK tune for Tourqe and not hP," is pretty meaningless. That's like saying, "When I workout, I lift for size and definition but not strength."

[cr95gst]

I'm trying to say that your response, "From what I understand the Evo guys in the UK tune for Tourqe and not hP," is pretty meaningless. That's like saying, "When I workout, I lift for size and definition but not strength."

LOL, well, actually Jack, bodybuilders workout for size and definition, not strength ;)

[Stevevo8]

I'm trying to say that your response, "From what I understand the Evo guys in the UK tune for Tourqe and not hP," is pretty meaningless. That's like saying, "When I workout, I lift for size and definition but not strength."


WTF,, Strength is not related to size and vice versa!! Maybee you should think before you speak MR..T..!! :lame:

and what I was saying was;; that they work out their tunning for the best tourqe curve for their respective mods.. They are not as worried about what the highest HP achieved was... And yes, they do go hand in hand... However,, I was still stating that this is the way that they appear to prefer to tune;; which is somewhat inline with what Brandon was stating in his post of the poor torque curve and it''s peak with Al''s tuning..

BTW how is my english and punctiation working out for ya?? :bird:

[ScrappyJack]

If you lift weights and increase your size and definition - a la a bodybuilding - you are going to improve your strength. They are connected. Likewise, you cannot tune for just torque without affecting horsepower as they are mathematically related.


BTW how is my english and punctiation working out for ya??

Steve - the problem is your English and grammar skills (as represented in this thread) suck for a person of your age and education. That makes it difficult for people to understand what you are talking about. What you first wrote and what you are now saying you meant are not the same thing. One was a meaningless generalization; the other is a more specific statement.

If I go to France, I shouldn't get pissed at the natives because I can't accurately get my message across.

As for the torque curve being ****ty, I'm still not so sure that is the case.

[Stevevo8]

LOL

BTW there are different methods for working out; When you work out you can gain considerable size without gaining strength and Vice versa. Although they are related some people do workout for size and defininition but not for strength. That is one reason there are strength training exercises and routines for people that want to gain strentgh and not mass.

Anyway, on to the original statement:


From what I understand the Evo guys in the UK tune for Tourqe and not hP.

I never said that his torque curve was bad. I thought I was adding to the conversation and letting everyone know that; the UK guys have a different approach to tuning which was related to Brandons posts.

I have seen some of his dyno graphs and in the ones that I have seen, the tourqe falls off somewhere halfway through the powerband.

I have also only made it to the third grade so please excuse my writing skills.

[ROYALGSX]

How did this get off on some Arnold type s**t. Anyway, how is anyone getting any kind of RPM or torque figures out of that dyno sheet. The only thing on it are HP and Speed (MPH not RPM), and no torque at all. Unless you guys know some kind of alien technology math or something.

[cr95gst]

Just use the 3rd gear gear ratio to figure it out.

[ROYALGSX]

Just use the 3rd gear gear ratio to figure it out.
There's alot of factors to figure that out. Such as the fact Al's got different size wheels and tires on it as a number one thing. Then you have gearset change in the trans??? clutch slippage???? tire spin on the drums?????

[GraySilvia]

There's alot of factors to figure that out. Such as the fact Al's got different size wheels and tires on it as a number one thing. Then you have gearset change in the trans??? clutch slippage???? tire spin on the drums?????

Who cares about **EXACT** numbers. I simply said that given that HP curve, there is a certain torque trend, IRREGARDLESS of gearing and/or wheel and tire size. His torque curve sucks!

[ScrappyJack]

I think the general dyno discussion needs to go here (http://orl.dsmforum.com/showthread.php?p=54140#post54140). Further discussion in this thread should be specifically about Al's car.

Thanks.

[1998fwd]

That's definatly a sick evo. I agree with everyone else here about AMS, Those guy's are definatly doing some sick work. I was just on there site checking everything out. Congrats to Al and all the guy's at AMS.