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Thread: engine smokes

  1. #1
    Savior Self damnDSM's Avatar
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    engine smokes

    A little background on the car.

    EDIT:
    Engine: 6bolt, aprx 3k mi. since rebuild.
    Turbo: FP-3575 journal bearing low mileage, no shaft play at all.

    The motor has roughly 3,000 miles on the rebuild. I was not the person who rebuilt it, but it is a safe assumption that it was done right. The last time I did a compression test, was shortly after I started to notice that the engine would smoke on deceleration (at that point it was pretty much limited to smoking on decelerating only) The compression test results were satisfactory, the lowest number was within 10% of the highest cylinder.
    The turbo is fed from the oil filter housing, and I am unsure of the actual pressure because the mechanical gauge is located on the head, which is regulated pressure.

    The engine currently smokes only after it warms up a little (but even before it reaches operating temperature) it is smoking worse than before. I have recently replaced the valve stem seals and it did not improve the issue. The engine idles, accelerates and performs normal and feels great actually.

    I am mainly just trying to documenting this for other members who might have similar issues.



    To do:
    -Compression test

    -Leak down test

    Then I am going to try a different turbo in the event that both tests are good.
    Last edited by damnDSM; February 7th, 2010 at 08:43 PM.
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  2. #2
    Your #1 Dealer DSMDealer's Avatar
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    I assume your PCV system isn't hooked up as per factory.
    Which could cause your issue.

    What weight oil are you running?
    An oil that is too light in viscosity can cause oil consumption issues especially in a turbo car.

    If the oil seal on the hot side of the turbo is bad it'll smoke like your having issues with but wont show on the plugs. If i remember right your plugs looked to be in ok shape. I think that you have an issue with the hot side seal.

    I've been running through the possibilities over te last few days and thats the best i could come up with.
    http://www.dsmregistry.com/3
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  3. #3
    Savior Self damnDSM's Avatar
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    Joe,
    I am running a JMF catch-can, 10w30 royal purple, which could be thicker because it is synthetic but it shouldn't cause smoking, or oil consumption like this. Especially in a freshly built engine.

    You are right though, it was dark, but I remembered the plugs looking fine for as badly as it smokes.
    So I pulled them and snapped a [GIANT] pic.
    Last edited by damnDSM; February 7th, 2010 at 07:25 PM.
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  4. #4
    Your #1 Dealer DSMDealer's Avatar
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    yep i'm going with the turbo oil seal for the hot side... Plugs are way too clean for it to be internal engine oil consumption... I've go 5 bucks says if you put a different known good turbo on it it'll quit smoking.
    http://www.dsmregistry.com/3
    Even God says we should bear arms. Luke 22:36 And He said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.

  5. #5
    Stage V Member 4G63 Steve's Avatar
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    Steve try feeding the turbo from the head instead of the OFH. This turbo were talking about is the DBB 3052 unit?
    1993 Plymouth Laser FWD - 649whp/444wtq. 2.0L E85, ECMlink.
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  6. #6
    1997 Talon AWD Red97Talon's Avatar
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    Feed from the head and use a heavier weight oil.
    "Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you."

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    I Need More Money! DSMer's Avatar
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    Dem plugs look great.
    I will be feedin my new turbo off the OFH... Duck the head.
    Steven, do you have a restrictor for the oil feed?
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    Savior Self damnDSM's Avatar
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    This is on the Galant, which has a FP3575 (journal bearing, full pressure) It is currently fed straight off of the OFH, but if you think the regulated pressure from the head will help Jose, I will give it a shot.


    another thing, the 2000mile oil REEKS of petrol.
    Last edited by damnDSM; February 7th, 2010 at 08:35 PM.
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    I Need More Money! DSMer's Avatar
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    even though it is JB you still need a restrictor feeding from the OFH.
    You probably hit well over 100psi oil pressure out of the OFH.

    One thing about oiling from the head is that it is the last place in the chain for the oil.
    I have feed a bunch of turbos off the head and never had a issue but My last turbo did not last long at all and am looking for a reason why and possibly pointing the finger here.
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  10. #10
    Savior Self damnDSM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSMer View Post
    You probably hit well over 100psi oil pressure out of the OFH.
    That is the same thought I had. It was the reason I mentioned that the oil pressure gauge was tapped at the head, not the OFH.

    Quote Originally Posted by DSMr
    One thing about oiling from the head is that it is the last place in the chain for the oil.
    I have feed a bunch of turbos off the head and never had a issue but My last turbo did not last long at all and am looking for a reason why and possibly pointing the finger here.
    This is a little off topic, but I have a similar fear. See the thread I started about the 2g head with 12mm studs (6bolt block) It was the only conclusion I could come up with when I was searching for the cause of failure on my 3052.
    [I]Proofreading is of the the utmost impotence.[I]

  11. #11
    Stage III Member SkunkApe_Talon's Avatar
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    Off the OFH it goes quite a bit over 100psi. My old roomate and I built his with a 3575 straight off of it, and it ended up blowing out his compressor side seal. It especially sucked because he just got back from deployment and while he was over in the sandbox his warranty ran out on the turbo. He bought the turbo a few months before leaving. The seals on either side are just as likely to go out as the other is because of high oil pressure. So check that shiV out, slap a turbo known to be good on it and gauruntee you that it is the problem. Your wideband been reading ok, or have you burnt one out while it was doing the time its been smoking?

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    I Need More Money! DSMer's Avatar
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    My plans, and this will work for you is to... feed off the OFH, with a restrictor. I bought another prosport Oil Press. Gauge that will be inline on the oil feed oine. That way I can monitor my oil pressure at the turbo.

    If you stay out of it completly, will your car still smoke?
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    Stage III Member SkunkApe_Talon's Avatar
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    OFH with restrictor, what you need

  14. #14
    Stage III Member SkunkApe_Talon's Avatar
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    OH wth?..disregard my statement. that guy beat me to the punch..took too long to type..

  15. #15
    Savior Self damnDSM's Avatar
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    I am going to use FP's red filter. It has the journal bearing restrictor built into the end. I was also planning on placing the oil pressure sending unit somewhere between the turbo and the OFH. I might go with a forward facing housing and a sandwich plate.


    The car doesn't smoke for 3-4 minutes initially, but usually begins before I start driving. While driving, it pretty much smokes all of the time, it probably smokes while I am driving 50mph+ but its hard to see because the smoke is dissipating too fast.
    [I]Proofreading is of the the utmost impotence.[I]

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    1997 Talon AWD Red97Talon's Avatar
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    Here is a secret. The 2G cars are fed off the OFH and the factory has a restrictor installed. Those are also Garrett units.
    "Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you."

  17. #17
    Savior Self damnDSM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red97Talon View Post
    Here is a secret. The 2G cars are fed off the OFH and the factory has a restrictor installed. Those are also Garrett units.
    this is good info.

    But we are talking about the Galant. I assume the 6bolt and mighty max OFH do not have the restictor?
    [I]Proofreading is of the the utmost impotence.[I]

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    1997 Talon AWD Red97Talon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by damnDSM View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Red97Talon View Post
    Here is a secret. The 2G cars are fed off the OFH and the factory has a restrictor installed. Those are also Garrett units.
    this is good info.

    But we are talking about the Galant. I assume the 6bolt and mighty max OFH do not have the restictor?
    6 bolt or 7 bolt it does not matter. The OFH regulates a max of about 85 psi (stock form). I believe garrett requires 30 psi max on their center sections. Mitsubishi is around 15-20 (Head feed regulated).
    "Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you."

  19. #19
    Savior Self damnDSM's Avatar
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    I am feeding the turbo from the head now. I only got to drive it around the block, but it isn't smoking anymore. There was some smoke on start up, but that was likely from previous the turbine seal blow by. I just used the feed line, and FP oil filter/restrictor from my white car. Since I had the black BB Filter/restrictor, I had to drill the orifice to 3/32" which is as close as I could get to 0.100" (the red FP inline filter/restrictor) Ultimately, I plan to build another feed line, long enough to stretch from the OFH, to the turbo.

    I am now pretty confident that there was an excessive oil pressure situation. The turbo is still tight, but as soon as FP writes me back to let me know which rebuild kit I need, my brother is probably going to have me take it down to Accurate for a rebuild and some work.

    This is what the pressure at the feed line is currently
    (coolant temp was 140*)
    12+/- PSI at idle
    20psi at 55mph







    EDIT:
    I expect the issue isn't fixed, but it wasn't smoking last night in the 30minutes I was running driving the car.

    I just found this useful link on tooners/Forced Performance
    http://store.forcedperformance.net/m..._Oil_Specs.pdf
    Last edited by damnDSM; February 16th, 2010 at 07:57 AM.
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  20. #20
    Savior Self damnDSM's Avatar
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    I am starting a new thread on catch can configuration. Since it is now believed to be the source of the problem.
    [I]Proofreading is of the the utmost impotence.[I]

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