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Thread: Please Help

  1. #1
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    Please Help

    HI,
    I have a 98 spyder with the 2.4l sohc 16v. I drove it to work the other morning with no problems. Tried starting it at work and the engine would not fire. I have ruled out fuel and ignition problems. I took the timing belt cover off and noticed that the cam shaft is not rotating when I turn the ignition but the belts are. The timing belt seems to be fine with 1/2 inch deflection (not broken). Any suggestions? My best guess so far is that the pulley attached to the harmonic balancer is stripped. I plan on tearing the car down this weekend so i wont know anything else till then. thanks in advance.

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    Your #1 Dealer DSMDealer's Avatar
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    Sounds like it stripped a few teeth off of the belt. With the 2.4 being an interference engine you will need to pull the head off of the block and send it to a machine shop and have the valves checked. (There will be bent ones.)
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    Moderator EaglesFly's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like the keyway that goes in the crank is gone to hold the crank and main timing pulley is gone or fubared.
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    1997 Talon AWD Red97Talon's Avatar
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    I say it stripped the teeth off the belt. Head needs to come off.
    "Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you."

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    Stage IV Member 6bolt2g's Avatar
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    Depending on which part you are actually talking about not turning on the cams, it could have sheared the dowel pin on the cam. That would allow the gear on the cam to spin and not turn the cam bolt (or cam for that matter). But, that changes very little, the head is probably going to have to come off.
    "You could add a quart of Roundup to the oil and drive around the neighborhood killing all the joggers and crabgrass."

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    It turns out that the belt was missing a whole lot of teeth. This happened while the car was parked. After a quick look at the values with the cover off they appear to be ok. (not bent of dis-formed) but won't know until I take care of the belt issue. My friend tells me that the idler pulley and tensioners should be fine and to only replace the belts. what do you guys think? the car has 140k on it.

  7. #7
    Traction? No thanks. vr4scott's Avatar
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    Replace it all. You can get all your parts on Rockauto.com really cheap:

    Timing belt - $24.79
    Balance shaft belt - $5.65
    Timing component kit - $41.79
    Hydraulic tensioner - $46.89
    Timing cover gasket kit - $9.28
    Crankshaft front seal set - $10.23

    Total + shipping: $138.63

    On top of that I can give you a discount code for 5% off. You're going to need all this stuff anyway, so I would install all this and see if it runs. If it doesn't, then you're only out the labor you put into it versus pulling the head and having to replace all those accompanying parts if they wind up not being needed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigJake View Post
    It turns out that the belt was missing a whole lot of teeth. This happened while the car was parked. After a quick look at the values with the cover off they appear to be ok. (not bent of dis-formed) but won't know until I take care of the belt issue. My friend tells me that the idler pulley and tensioners should be fine and to only replace the belts. what do you guys think? the car has 140k on it.
    Since the engine was running you need to pull the head. Just because they look good from the top doesn't mean they are fine below. It doesn't take much of a bend to keep the valve open. You will find out the hard way unless you listen to those with experience. DO IT ONCE, DO IT RIGHT.
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    Even God says we should bear arms. Luke 22:36 And He said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.

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    1997 Talon AWD Red97Talon's Avatar
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    Take the plugs out. Shine a flash light down in the cylinders. If you see shiny spots on your piston tops you bent the valves.
    "Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you."

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    I got the timing belt assembly put back together today. The motor turns over fine but is making a clicking noise. I'm going to take the head off this weekend. Where is the best place to have it rebuilt in the area?

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    Your #1 Dealer DSMDealer's Avatar
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    Dover Cylinder Head.
    4074810088
    436 N. Westmoreland Orlando
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    Even God says we should bear arms. Luke 22:36 And He said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.

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    After talking to my uncle and letting him listen to the noise I am second guesting that it is a valve that is clicking. The frequency of this noise follows the rpm of the motor. I have isolated this noise to the crank shaft area. I am attaching a recording so if anyone out there can identify this noise I would be very grateful. here is the link. http://www.filedropper.com/voice001 just click on download this file. then just open rather then save. thanks again.

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    Moderator EaglesFly's Avatar
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    Check the tightness of the cam gear bolts.
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    1997 Talon AWD Red97Talon's Avatar
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    Did you remove the head and have it gone through?
    "Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you."

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    No not yet. I plan on doing that this week. I went to dover cylinder head today. He wants 500 to rebuild mine. its only 16 valves. I am thinking i will start looking for a used rebuilt one. any suggestions on where to look?

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    Your #1 Dealer DSMDealer's Avatar
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    It may "Only be 16 valves" but its also 16 valve guides, 16 lifters and 16 valves seats. DO IT ONCE, DO IT RIGHT.
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    Even God says we should bear arms. Luke 22:36 And He said to them, "But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one.

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    Stage V Member boostedeagle's Avatar
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    theres a place called bernal machine shop in apopka that i use for rebuilding cyclinder heads. The guy does a great job for a great price thats way less than other places. Hes doing the motor for my new car: installing darton sleeves, repairing a really bad cyclinder head, and checking everything. Hes done all the cyclinder heads for my familys business and there has been zero problems.

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    Ok so I pulled the head off last night and could not see any indication that the valves and pistions ever hit. Not even a slight mark in the carbon build up on the pistons. I am planning on talking to dover head today about testing the head. I did post a sound clip of the noise a couple posts ago. The noise was loudest at the crankshaft. Does anyone have any other ideas of what this could be? Balancing shaft bearing? Main bearing? I should restate that when this all started the car drove fine to work with a slight clicking noise about every 3 seconds. That morning was the first I heard that noise. At lunch the car would turn over but not fire. The balancing shaft belt was completely broken and the timing belt was missing about 10 teeth between the crank sprocket and oil pump sprocket. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

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    1997 Talon AWD Red97Talon's Avatar
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    That noise could be the crank pulley/balancer coming apart.
    "Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you."

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    Should of compression tested before pulling the head. Between that and a vacuum gauge (holding stead instead of fluttering) you would have known there were no bent valves before going through all that work.
    Swiper no swiping!

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    1997 Talon AWD Red97Talon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4g64fiero View Post
    Should of compression tested before pulling the head. Between that and a vacuum gauge (holding stead instead of fluttering) you would have known there were no bent valves before going through all that work.
    He still might have bent a few valves. I've seen slightly tweaked valves make compression.
    "Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you."

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    SkreetRacer 97GSXmike's Avatar
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    stripped teeth on the t-belt is 9/10 belt valves. They are just known for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red97Talon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 4g64fiero View Post
    Should of compression tested before pulling the head. Between that and a vacuum gauge (holding stead instead of fluttering) you would have known there were no bent valves before going through all that work.
    He still might have bent a few valves. I've seen slightly tweaked valves make compression.
    I suppose that could happen but it seems like it would have to have warped the valve guide to do that.
    Either way, the vacuum gauge would still flutter and the compression they did make would quickly fade. IMHO.
    Swiper no swiping!

  24. #24
    1997 Talon AWD Red97Talon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4g64fiero View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Red97Talon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 4g64fiero View Post
    Should of compression tested before pulling the head. Between that and a vacuum gauge (holding stead instead of fluttering) you would have known there were no bent valves before going through all that work.
    He still might have bent a few valves. I've seen slightly tweaked valves make compression.
    I suppose that could happen but it seems like it would have to have warped the valve guide to do that.
    Either way, the vacuum gauge would still flutter and the compression they did make would quickly fade. IMHO.
    A leak down test would tell the whole story. Mitsubishis are good at running with tweaked valves. Seen it 100 times. The valves all look straight until you put them on the valve grinder.
    "Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you."

  25. #25
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    Well crap.
    Swiper no swiping!

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